Discussion:
Host advice
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Mayayana
2018-10-20 23:48:12 UTC
Permalink
I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
it's just not workable.

I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
I pay $9/month now. I want php, server logs, email
server, dependable hosting. No cheapo site like goDaddy.
I don't mind paying for real hosting.
Allodoxaphobia
2018-10-21 13:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
it's just not workable.
I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
I pay $9/month now. I want php, server logs, email
server, dependable hosting. No cheapo site like goDaddy.
I don't mind paying for real hosting.
I've been with K&T Host <knthost.com> for many years now.
I have and/or support 5 web sites there.

Email is GREAT.
I generally receive less than 200 spam over a 90-day period -- and I
have a wildcard account. (Probably not available anymore.) But, you
can craft your own filters to (pre)process incoming email before the
server pulls the trigger on spam.

Super response to any issues I've ever had.
Highly recommended!

HTH,
Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | Marvin | W3DHJ.net | linux
38.238N 104.547W | @ jonz.net | Jonesy | FreeBSD
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm
Mayayana
2018-10-21 13:36:07 UTC
Permalink
"Allodoxaphobia" <***@example.net> wrote in message news:***@vps.jonz.net...
| On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 19:48:12 -0400, Mayayana wrote:
| > I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
| > but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
| > and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
| > it's just not workable.

| I've been with K&T Host <knthost.com> for many years now.
| I have and/or support 5 web sites there.
|
| Email is GREAT.

Very informative. Thanks. Do you know anything
about the blacklisting services? One hesitation
about moving is that it seems unlikely that I'd be
able to tell in advance whether a host uses the
uceprotect blacklist or worse. I have control now
over Spam Assassin, which seems to work well.
I'd like to have a host that doesn't use any additional
blacklisting.
Do you also have access to your raw server logs?
I like to process those myself.
Allodoxaphobia
2018-10-21 20:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
| > I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
| > but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
| > and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
| > it's just not workable.
| I've been with K&T Host <knthost.com> for many years now.
| I have and/or support 5 web sites there.
|
| Email is GREAT.
Very informative. Thanks. Do you know anything
about the blacklisting services? One hesitation
about moving is that it seems unlikely that I'd be
able to tell in advance whether a host uses the
uceprotect blacklist or worse. I have control now
over Spam Assassin, which seems to work well.
I'd like to have a host that doesn't use any additional
blacklisting.
Do you also have access to your raw server logs?
I like to process those myself.
Blacklisting ... I'm not sure.
I dunno if they do that -- or how they might be doing it.
You could inquire -- posing as a prospective customer.

I do know they employ a lot of system tricks to thwart simple spam
MUAs/MTAs. They also employ well thought-out filters to deflect
suspicious email (spam) into your spam folder. You can teach the
bayesian engine about what you consider spam by moving emails from the
IMAP Inbox to Spam -- or vicey-versy. But, I see Very Few false
positives -- either way.

Raw server logs - yes. It's a nginx environment -- unless you request
otherwise. You have access to nginx-access, nginx-error, php-error,
and more.

You have ssh access to the website -- with a nearly full blown bash
environment. You can run cron tasks in the web environment (which I
do for great effect.)

I feel a little embarassed to pay such a modest amount for so much.

HTH,
Jonesy
Mayayana
2018-10-21 21:44:12 UTC
Permalink
"Allodoxaphobia" <***@example.net> wrote in message news:***@vps.jonz.net...

| Raw server logs - yes. It's a nginx environment -- unless you request
| otherwise. You have access to nginx-access, nginx-error, php-error,
| and more.
|
That all sounds good. Thanks.

| I feel a little embarassed to pay such a modest amount for so much.
|

I know what you mean. It's hard to figure how these
people make a living. Yet the popular "best of" reviews
usually don't even mention anything over about $4/month,
as though the cost of *2* Starbucks coffees per month
to have a Web presence would be an unreasonable expense
for a small business.

Yet at the other extreme are hosts charging over $100
for what appears to be essentially the same deal. That's why
I wanted advice. The sweet spot in between -- real
webhosting for a reasonable price -- is not so common.
Allodoxaphobia
2018-10-21 23:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
| Raw server logs - yes. It's a nginx environment -- unless you request
| otherwise. You have access to nginx-access, nginx-error, php-error,
| and more.
|
That all sounds good. Thanks.
| I feel a little embarassed to pay such a modest amount for so much.
|
I know what you mean. It's hard to figure how these
people make a living. Yet the popular "best of" reviews
usually don't even mention anything over about $4/month,
as though the cost of *2* Starbucks coffees per month
to have a Web presence would be an unreasonable expense
for a small business.
Yet at the other extreme are hosts charging over $100
for what appears to be essentially the same deal. That's why
I wanted advice. The sweet spot in between -- real
webhosting for a reasonable price -- is not so common.
And, to answer your blocklist question, I asked and was answered:

"We don't blacklist email, and we don't use third party blacklists. We
do use Rspamd (www.rspamd.com), as a self hosted instance. Rspamd uses
a variety of filtering techniques, including Bayes, Neural training,
specific rules, and so on.

For the most part, email is tagged and forwarded to the recipient. It
may be filtered to the Spam folder if the Rspamd servers assess it as
spam. We work to avoid rejecting email outright.

However, in the event that something is rejected at the door, the
third party sender would need to resolve the issue on their side.
I must caution, that any sender that is commonly and repeatedly
blocked by a blacklist, is going to experience some level of
rejection with just about any provider. We use different techniques,
but the end result is still same. We reject any email which scores
12+ points at the door. No legitimate mail source, properly set up,
would score that high.

We do ask that any customer experiencing missing email due to a reject
notice reach out to us. In many cases, small changes on the sending
side make a significant difference. We're always willing to work with
other providers to ensure clear and reliable communication between our
respective customers."

What did I tell you? Great Service -- even late on Sunday.

HTH,
Jonesy
Doc O'Leary
2018-10-21 22:35:53 UTC
Permalink
For your reference, records indicate that
Post by Mayayana
I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
it's just not workable.
I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
Are you? Sounds more like you want good email hosting. There’s
absolutely no reason to tie the two together, other than it’s just a
common/cheap add-on for web hosting providers. Otherwise, it’s
something that can be handled with a $15/year VPS, with the only
potential issue being deliverability for outgoing messages. If need
be, just keep your current provider and use them for that.
--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Mayayana
2018-10-22 00:55:14 UTC
Permalink
"Doc O'Leary" <***@2017usenet1.subsume.com> wrote in message news:pqiv09$4ev$***@dont-email.me...

| > I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
|
| Are you? Sounds more like you want good email hosting. There's
| absolutely no reason to tie the two together, other than it's just a
| common/cheap add-on for web hosting providers. Otherwise, it's
| something that can be handled with a $15/year VPS, with the only
| potential issue being deliverability for outgoing messages. If need
| be, just keep your current provider and use them for that.
|

I've seen mention of that. The one I saw was $20/year per
address. That's a possibility if it were especially attractive for
some reason, but the host I have now, and most decent
web hosting, fully handles POP3 and SMTP for dozens of
email addresses. I see no reason to deal with two different
hosts if it can be avoided. The blacklisting problem is my
only complaint. Aside from that the service has been unfailing.
But blacklisting is a serious problem when they block whole ISPs
without notice. I don't think I can even check with uceprotect
to find out whether someone is being blocked. They offer some
kind of custom database, but it wouldn't download for me, and
I'm guessing it just lists IP ranges rather than domain names.
Doc O'Leary
2018-10-23 19:40:30 UTC
Permalink
For your reference, records indicate that
Post by Mayayana
| > I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
|
| Are you? Sounds more like you want good email hosting. There's
| absolutely no reason to tie the two together, other than it's just a
| common/cheap add-on for web hosting providers. Otherwise, it's
| something that can be handled with a $15/year VPS, with the only
| potential issue being deliverability for outgoing messages. If need
| be, just keep your current provider and use them for that.
|
I've seen mention of that. The one I saw was $20/year per
address.
That’s insane. Like I said, you can run a full (maybe secondary) mail
server on a low end VPS, handling as many thousands of (low traffic)
accounts you might have for under $20/year total. I do it myself, and
the amount of admin work needed to keep it going is negligible.
Post by Mayayana
I see no reason to deal with two different
hosts if it can be avoided.
Then maybe consider moving your web hosting to a VPS as well. When you
reach the point where you want to start doing custom configurations that
aren’t supported by some hosting provider, it’s the next logical step.
Post by Mayayana
But blacklisting is a serious problem when they block whole ISPs
without notice.
Hell, I once used a hosting provider (DreamHost) that was so into
automatic blacklisting that they even blocked their *own* mail servers,
which meant I wouldn’t get reports from my cron jobs if one of their
other users went on a spam run.

Got tired of that sort of nonsense from “cookie cutter” web hosting
and happily switched to a VPS. It’s slightly more effort in some ways,
but the control means that other things (like email) are much less
likely to get broken behind your back.
--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Robert Baer
2020-08-02 05:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
it's just not workable.
I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
I pay $9/month now. I want php, server logs, email
server, dependable hosting. No cheapo site like goDaddy.
I don't mind paying for real hosting.
What the heck is wrong with Godaddy?
I have used them for over 10 years.
They provide shared and independent servers, CPANEL access, 24 hr
support.

Thanks,
Robert Baer, Manager
Oil 4 Less® LLC
[[PS: i am dumping this site, to much trash, your posting is almost the
ONLY sane one]]
Jerry Stuckle
2020-08-02 18:18:16 UTC
Permalink
    I'm having trouble with a webhost I really like
but they're using uceprotect blacklisting service
and I'm getting so much incoming email blocked
it's just not workable.
   I'm looking for recommendations for good webhosting.
I pay $9/month now. I want php, server logs, email
server, dependable hosting. No cheapo site like goDaddy.
I don't mind paying for real hosting.
  What the heck is wrong with Godaddy?
  I have used them for over 10 years.
  They provide shared and independent servers, CPANEL access, 24 hr
support.
  Thanks,
Robert Baer, Manager
Oil 4 Less® LLC
[[PS: i am dumping this site, to much trash, your posting is almost the
ONLY sane one]]
I think after a year and nine months the OP has probably found another
web hosting service.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
***@attglobal.net
==================
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